Tuesday, April 12, 2005

“ What I tell you three times is true” (Lewis Carroll)

Note From Glen:
Hello All, Alison contributed this wonderful concept, however it is very lengthy. Therefore, to keep things tidy on the main page, the first bit will be here and the last bit can be found in the comments section.
Thanks for opening your mind,
Glen


An atom of oxygen has eight protons, two electron shells and six outer electrons. 2+2= 4. Black makes you look slimmer. There are certain things we know to be true. But how do we know these things? Is it because we have been told they are true? Have you ever actually seen an oxygen atom before? Lewis Carroll, a British logician, mathematician, and novelist (Britannica) once said "What I tell you three times is true." Might this formula, or a more sophisticated version of it, actually determine what we believe to be true?
In order to answer this we must realize that truth changes, or at least what we believe to be true. Truth is limited by our present knowledge, technology and consensus, as these factors change, so does truth. It was once believed that the earth was flat, that if you sailed far enough you would fall right off into nothingness. This was the consensus at the time until technology was able to prove otherwise. We now know our earth is round, but will this knowledge change some day? Will we become knowledgeable about new dimensions which will alter how we perceive our planet? Truths are how we perceive knowledge, and how we perceive things changes as new factors come into effect, thus changing our beliefs about what is true.
During our early years of life the human brain can absorb the most knowledge. During these young years, however, we are not yet capable of discovering for ourselves what is true, we must instead trust what is told to us. Many of our early years are spent at school ‘learning,’ but we are really just believing what our teachers tell us. Although most people would prefer to experience learning by doing, life is too short to experience everything. We must accept certain things to be true. As these ‘facts’ however are being put in our heads, we must be sure to evaluate this new knowledge. What expertise does the speaker have on the subject? Does this ‘truth’ sound rational? Humans must use reason, perception and emotion, to critically evaluate what is being told to them.
The idea of believing what you are told is starting to become a concern. Mathematicians are starting to believe the ideas of math are true. Mathematics "is the first and only true construct of the mind."(Hilderbrant) Burton Richter, Nobel Prize winner says "Mathematics is a language that is used to describe nature. But theorists are beginning to think it is nature." (Cole 85) Can math, a construct of our mind, ever really be ‘true?’ It is a language made-up to explain something, not to BE something. When you work with a fabrication of the mind all day, it is hard not to begin to believe it. In this way the idea of believing what you are told many times can lead to false ideas of reality.
Technology helps us to discover new truths. It enables us to experience more truths, rather than just believe what people tell us. At the same time, technology is making it very difficult to believe anything. We often say "seeing is believing," however this is quickly becoming a danger. Our eyes can no longer be depended upon. With models being airbrushed and people being superimposed, our ability to know what is true has been reduced. It begins to be a scary thought when everything needs to be questioned. The technological evolution of the Internet made it possible for anyone to distribute information without any type of authenticity. It is becoming too easy for people who are not authorities to give information many times, which is not in fact true but which is easy to believe.... (Cont. in Comments)

Alison.Concepts.Inc

273 Comments:

At 3:59 PM, Blogger Glen. said...

(......continued)

Applying the formula, what I tell you three times is true, into different areas of knowledge we can see that it is more relevant in some areas than in others. Historical knowledge is very much dependent on what people tell you. Being a knowledge of the past, and not being able to go back in time, it is impossible to experience historical truths. Evidence can be found to support an idea of the past, but the only way to know something to be true is if you were involved. Historical knowledge must rely on what others tell us, sometimes it is authorities who were involved and sometimes we depend on the theory of people who have been studying the area and have put together a truth from different artifacts that have been found.
Math is another area very dependent on knowledgeable authorities. Very few people are independent thinkers in the area of math and even these few can not truly experience mathematical truth. Mathematical truth can not be seen, or experienced, instead it is invented. Used as a model of truth, math is a language developed to explain phenomenons. Many areas of knowledge turn to math when looking to find a truth. This language of numbers holds within it the answer to most truths. To discover these truths, however, takes a lot of time and a very intelligent mind. Most of the population depends of authorities to teach these truths which then must be accepted.
Decreasing dependence on the teachings of authorities can be found in the areas of ethics and natural science. As a youth both areas of knowledge are very dependent on the truth formula, what I tell you three times is true. As a person matures, however, they become less dependent on authorities for the truth in these areas, and more dependent on experience. As a child grows, they learn the morals of their family and society. That child becomes more independent over time and may develop individual values and morals which they have discovered through personal experience. Growing up in Canada, a country with no worries about water, food or war, I have grown up taking for granted some of the most important life essentials. Last summer, I attended a conference in B.C. with youth from around the world. I realized that not all humans were as lucky as I, they do not have clean water, and may live in fear of war. This summer experience made me value the simple things and I realized that more fortunate people have to help others who are less fortunate, even if we have never met those people before.
A person’s knowledge in the natural sciences is also less dependent on the teaching of authorities as they age. Throughout high school many students take part in biology and chemistry class, learning about science. The knowledge obtained during these years is solely dependent on what the teachers tell you many times. When a person reaches university and beyond, there is opportunity for primary research and experiments. In order to be able to experience the truths of natural science, a person must first trust the truths which authorities tell them, they can later test for themselves.
Least dependent on authorities, in my opnion, are the areas of human sciences and the arts. The study of human nature is a newer area of knowledge, and therefore does not have as many authorities to depend on. Generalizations help us to understand human nature, but when dealing with humans there will be exceptions to every rule. An authority would have a hard time determining any truths because people are all so different. Instead knowledge within human sciences is more dependent on analysing each individual case.
Art is an area dependent on emotion; art should move a person, evoke emotions. Authorities cannot control a person’s emotions. The way in which you perceive a work of art, however, can be altered by what authorities tell you. Those who have tapped deeper into their artistic sides, I feel, are less susceptible to these biassed impressions. When reading poetry within our class our teacher tells us, “there is no wrong meaning;” (Storry) art is about how it makes you feel. Artistic persons have a more independent interpretation of art, while others, not as artistic, are more easily swayed by authority.
Humans have adapted a formula similar to that of Lewis Carrolls’, “what I tell you three times is true.”Although this may not be the best way to determine truth, it is not possible for every person to be able to experience everything first hand, so we must accept what others tell us. If we did not, human knowledge would never advance. A person’s quest for knowledge and truth must start with what others tell them, and can then grow to a quest led by experience. We must be careful of whom we believe, as anyone can tell us anything. We must take in truth with precautions. This formula only takes into account language as a way of knowing. When travelling through the journey for truth, we must also take into account other ways of knowing. Reason, emotion and perception must be taken into account and used as a screening process to assure that the truths which authorities are teaching, do in fact seem true. We cannot, and should not, however, shut ourselves away from believing what authorities tell us. You experience what you are capable of experiencing, for everything else you must rely on authorities along with your emotions, reason and perspective.


Alison.Concepts.Inc.

 
At 6:05 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Sorry all, it didn't look nearly that long as a word document. But hey if you need some help falling asleep, this should do it.

 
At 12:32 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

It is interesting to point out the great deal of trust and dependency humans have on each other to ensure that the information we receive is indeed true, or somewhat near the truth. But it is also that truth which has been passed down to the ‘learned’ which can be just as void as what they in turn teach us. This poses a question of reality, and what we perceive as reality dependent on how it is explained to us. I believe that it is not those with all of the answers who know any more about life than anyone else.
I have a hard time with math because there is only one correct answer. I have a hard time with science because there it can only evolve as far as a hypothesis. If I trust that I will probably never truly understand either of these, than why complicate life by asking questions which won’t provide sufficient answers. Neither math nor science will be able to explain the phenomenon of human consciousness and emotion as far as “electrical impulses in the brain”, because I believe it is beyond our understanding. I sometimes wonder if we had lived simpler and avoided our interest in advanced knowledge, would there be as many problems in the world as there is now. I guess it is human nature to pursue the unknown and try to improve as a global society. It seems as though it isn’t until we’ve tried something that we realize maybe we would have been better off not doing it in the first place.
“I believe that unarmed truth and unconditional love will have the final word in reality. This is why right, temporarily defeated, is stronger than evil triumphant” Martin Luther King
Great post Alison.

Trevor.Concepts.Inc.

 
At 10:47 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Alison, I thoroughly enjoyed your post. As I read it, a firing squad of ideas went off in my head. Each idea unwaveringly pulled the trigger of it's gun and, with every shot, the falsified reality within which we live was dealt a destabalizing blow.

Stupid firing squad analogy aside, it was extremely interesting and touched on many areas of personal interest to me. I have about 3 pages worth of reponses that I will post after I figure out some sort of coherent way to present them.
I wil refer now, however, to a scholar most have heard of. Socrates once summarized much of his philosophical approach when he stated something to the effect of, "All I know is that I know nothing."
I guess, based on your post, it's fair to say that we have convinced ourselves otherwise.

As mentioned, I intend to post more comments on this post. Thanks for the stuff to think about,

Ross.McIntyre.Inc.

 
At 7:31 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

sorry. . .I'm a moron. I meant,

Ross.Concepts.Inc.

 
At 10:59 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Part I

The concept raised the interesting question of the connection between truth and science. More specifically, do scientific and technological advances provide us with answers? The obvious and instinctive answer is 'yes'. Barely even one hundred years ago society's answer to epilepsy was "She's a witch, lets kill her a then throw her body in a tar pit just to be safe!" Things are obviously different now. We have an answer.

I think its important, however, to recognize the double-edged nature of science and technology. In a way, it does narrow the amount of things we don't know, but, at the same time, it expands the amount of things we don't know. A scientific discovery may provide us with an answer, but then countless NEW questions are raised about that answer. I guess that's what keeps science going.

Science is sort of like one of those annoying people who have a habit of answering questions with 5 more questions. if science were a person and someone asked it "Do you want to eat a hotdog?" Science would respond, "What quantitative properties does the hotdog exhibit? What purpose does the hotdog serve in relation to me? What's the meaning of 'hotdog'?" That sort of thing.

In a very real way, 'knowing' something in a scientific sense seems to bring with it countless new 'unknowns'. Every new advancement doesn't narrow the field, but rather expands it. This expansion within science seems to form an interesting parallel with the very universe it is trying to study.
For these reasons, I feel confident in saying that science thrives on answers, but also on the fact that there will never be a 'final answer'.

Ross.Concepts.Inc.

 
At 10:52 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Studying for philosphy, more specifically Descartes, made me think of this post, so I re-read the post keeping in mind what I had been studying. Skepticism is a much discussed and hotly debated topic in philosophy. Descartes was the first to raise the mystifying question of how we can claim to know with certainty anything about the world around us. The idea is not that these doubts are probable, but that their possibility can never be entirely ruled out. And if we can never be certain, how can we claim to know anything? Skepticism cuts straight to the heart of the Western philosophical enterprise and its attempt to provide a certain foundation for our knowledge and understanding of the world. It can even be pushed so far as to be read as a challenge to our very notion of rationality.
No one actually lives skepticism--no one actually doubts whether other people really exist--but it is very difficult to justify a dismissal of skepticism.
Excellent post.

Peter.Concepts.Inc.

 
At 6:51 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Part II

This post discussed how we often turn to authourity figures for our information. This is traditionally viewed as a conscious, direct process where the individual seeks out information and someone else provides it. In Western society, however, this relationship has become much more subconscious and indirect, permeating every aspect of our waking life.
Talk of 'government mind control' and 'computer chips in brains', usually is written off as ridiculous conspiracy theory (rightfully so) but these bastardized visions of government control undermine its actuality.

The theory of 'manufacturing consent' is becoming more popular as its main proponent, Noam Chomsky, continues to achieve an all-to-shallow colloquial status. The theory was introduced by Walter Lippmann, who outlined how a government (any type) must have a significant degree of control over the masses. Government was after all, according to Lippmann, the only people capable of intelligent thought.
Chomsky approaches this idea from a non-elitist perspective and cites a range of actual examples that not only hint at, but actually demonstrate a specific plan of attack on public opinion.

Descartes, as mentioned by Peter, introduced the philosophical notion of scepticism. The official messages that filter from the government through the media have significantly impaired our ability to be sceptical; they either lull everyone into thinking everything is a-ok, or try and scare the crap out of you with sensationalized reporting (for more, google 'culture of fear'). Much of this is obviously in relation to the American system, but we are only a stone's throw away (if your standing close enough to the border).
Descartes engaged in a philosophical process aimed at emptying the mind to unearth some sort of objective truth. If we wanted to engage in a similar process, I doubt we could. At best, we might be able to THINK that we have emptied our mind, but the 'official ideology' that we encounter every day would still be heavily intertwined with our psyche.
Essentially, the idea of 'saying something three times and its true' is, itself, probably true when talking about perception. 'Oh, but its not true in reality', one might object. As the original post pointed out, as well as Descartes, often perception matters more than reality. Governments know this and exist because of it.

It is mind boggling to consider this on a larger level and it sort of makes you wonder how much of your internal value system is a result of externalities.
Although it is difficult, perhaps impossible for some, regaining scepticism may be more important now than ever before.

Ross.Concepts.Inc.

 
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THANKYOU. This helped a ton! and no, I did not fall asleep.. twas very interesting indeed :)

 
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